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mandela, a remarkable life dedicated his to fighting for civil rights in south africa. mandela lived long enough to see a multiracial democratic south africa. he called it the rainbow nation. the grief over his death crossed racial lines ha he devoted his to erasing. a young man at the age of 25, he joined the african national congress in 1956. mandela was arrested with 155 other political activists and was changed with high treason. the treason trial lasted 4 1/2 years. the charges against him were ultimately dropped. mandela used a false identity to evade the government and traveled to europe and other countries in africa to built support for the anc and study guerilla warfare. when he returned to south africa in 1962, mandela was arrested and sentenced to years in prison. during his sentence, the government charmed mandela and other anc leaders with sabotage and attempting to violently overthrow the government. the winner of 1964, mandela and his colleagues were sentenced to in prison. mandela's brutal imprisonment helped win freedom for his nation. he represented hi
mandela, a remarkable life dedicated his to fighting for civil rights in south africa. mandela lived long enough to see a multiracial democratic south africa. he called it the rainbow nation. the grief over his death crossed racial lines ha he devoted his to erasing. a young man at the age of 25, he joined the african national congress in 1956. mandela was arrested with 155 other political activists and was changed with high treason. the treason trial lasted 4 1/2 years. the charges against him...
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. >> well, you know, these relationships areim intertwined the civil rights movement and the, movement to free south africa. you know, they're parallel histories. many objective, freedom and equality. many don't know this because they associatete martin luther king primarily wir the civil rights movement, but when mandela was in prison, he went in '61-62, martin luther king spoke and described south african s racism as the worst i the world and he says even denying the blacks of basic right of non-violent protest. of course, everybody is mandela to gandhi and martin luther king, although neither of them was in favor of violence, but nelson mandela went to violence not to take over the country, but to get the white minority regime to listen to the demands of black people, but even as late, early in '64, martin luther king was calling for nelson mandela's release. in 1965, he spoke in london, and called for internal sanctions. he echoed that in the '80s and, of course you know, the free south african movement in which president obama spoke of being a part of as a young student was very m
. >> well, you know, these relationships areim intertwined the civil rights movement and the, movement to free south africa. you know, they're parallel histories. many objective, freedom and equality. many don't know this because they associatete martin luther king primarily wir the civil rights movement, but when mandela was in prison, he went in '61-62, martin luther king spoke and described south african s racism as the worst i the world and he says even denying the blacks of basic...
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you were front and center as part of that movement, the civil rights movement here. you had that experience also in talking to him, the cross-fertilization of these freedom movements. >> yes, i think they fed off of each other. i think while the united states civil rights movement came of age and its victory much earlier than the apartheid struggle, they were very much alike. i think that's what enabled me, i think, to have the success to the extent i did to have it. i didn't go as a journalist going in an objective way, i was informed by the experiences we had in the south and in the united states. so when i got there, i understand. there were significant differences. in south africa the majority were the black people and they had been suppressed by a minority, unlike in the united states. still the struggles were similar. i think each learned from the other. the african national congress, almost as old as the naacp, many of the things they adopted came from our struggle and we learned from them. so i can understand what john was saying. certainly for south african
you were front and center as part of that movement, the civil rights movement here. you had that experience also in talking to him, the cross-fertilization of these freedom movements. >> yes, i think they fed off of each other. i think while the united states civil rights movement came of age and its victory much earlier than the apartheid struggle, they were very much alike. i think that's what enabled me, i think, to have the success to the extent i did to have it. i didn't go as a...
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on march 21, 1960, in sharpeville, the peaceful civil rights movement was pierced with bullets. ( gunfire ) walter cronkite reported. >> police mounted on tanks opened fire. 69 natives were killed, 176 wounded. most of the victims were shot in the back. >> teichner: it was against this blood-red backdrop that nelson mandela took up arms. >> it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and non-violence against a government whose reply is only savage attacks. >> teichner: when the a.n.c. became a more radical movement, nelson mandela became a fugitive, and, in 1962, would be arrested in the johannesburg suburb of rivonia. he was charged with attempting to violently overthrow the government. what unfolded was a crucible known as "the rivonia trial." the climax of the rivonia trial was nelson mandela's speech from the dock. >> it's one of the great political statements, i think, in human history. >> teichner: mandela was sentenced to life in prison. he was sent here to robben island, the alcatraz of south africa. >> this is where we broke stones using four-pound hammers, seated o
on march 21, 1960, in sharpeville, the peaceful civil rights movement was pierced with bullets. ( gunfire ) walter cronkite reported. >> police mounted on tanks opened fire. 69 natives were killed, 176 wounded. most of the victims were shot in the back. >> teichner: it was against this blood-red backdrop that nelson mandela took up arms. >> it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and non-violence against a government whose reply is only savage attacks....
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>>> this morning, the world wakes to the news that a joint of human and civil rights is gone. nelson mandela, a guiding force, reve revered, forever changing history. >> recognize that apartheid has no future. >> he spent nearly three decades in prison, emerging to become the first black president of south africa. a father figure to his people. and to millions around the world. this morning, new reaction from every corner of the world. >> i cannot fully imagine my own life without the example that nelson mandela set. >> right now on "america this morning," abc news remembers nelson mandela, a man who changed the world. ♪ >>> and this morning, the world wakes to news of a giant of human and civil rights gone. nelson mandela, a guiding force for millions, revered for forever changing history. >> she spent nearly three decades in prison, becoming the first black president in south africa. father figure to millions around the globe. >> people around the world are remembering nelson mandela, a symbol of forbearance, peace and dignity. we have pictures from south africa, where peo
>>> this morning, the world wakes to the news that a joint of human and civil rights is gone. nelson mandela, a guiding force, reve revered, forever changing history. >> recognize that apartheid has no future. >> he spent nearly three decades in prison, emerging to become the first black president of south africa. a father figure to his people. and to millions around the world. this morning, new reaction from every corner of the world. >> i cannot fully imagine my own...
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civil rights movement then he brought it home. as a result now, south africa which still has troubles, still has 30% unemployment, which this rainbow nation doesn't exactly exist the way we like to think it does, is now left in -- with the absence of him to look in the hire current and future leaders realizing nobody quite measures up. partly because the goals were different. the ideals are different. the challenges are different. the economy is still struggling. will never see the likes of nelson mandela again. maybe neither should we. perhaps he was a man of his time. the question i guess now especially for all the young people, they call them born free, born after he was no longer president. he was one term as president which was another smart thing. >> one of the few african leaders who stepped down willingly. very few people in that position say, know what, i'm done. i'll move on to something else. >> schieffer: one of the few leaders, i mean you look where they sometimes have to take them out on a gurney know that their time
civil rights movement then he brought it home. as a result now, south africa which still has troubles, still has 30% unemployment, which this rainbow nation doesn't exactly exist the way we like to think it does, is now left in -- with the absence of him to look in the hire current and future leaders realizing nobody quite measures up. partly because the goals were different. the ideals are different. the challenges are different. the economy is still struggling. will never see the likes of...
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the civil rights not just of people in south africa but around the world. sadly, that struggle still goes on. >> reporter: nelson mandela's death is front page news here in london. take a look at some of the headlines. here is the son, says president of the world. the london times" simply has a photograph of him gazing off into the distance. and then the daily mail with the headline "death of a colossus." many people in london waking up to these headlines, waking up to this news and they've come here to the south africa house to pay tribute. they've been coming steadily all day long. there's a two-hour line to sign a book of condolences. they're singing and playing songs and dancing in tribute to his life and legacy. so a real celebration here of any son mandela in london. suzanne and michael. >> erin mclaughlin. london was the scene of daily protests during the times of apartheid, too. permanent protests there in london. all right. well, the world lost an icon and the world likes to claim nelson mandela, but of course, he has a family. his family lost a hu
the civil rights not just of people in south africa but around the world. sadly, that struggle still goes on. >> reporter: nelson mandela's death is front page news here in london. take a look at some of the headlines. here is the son, says president of the world. the london times" simply has a photograph of him gazing off into the distance. and then the daily mail with the headline "death of a colossus." many people in london waking up to these headlines, waking up to this...
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and whose dignity inspired not only his own homeland, but those that work for freedom and civil rights across the world. we begin with the great man's own words. the ones we will all remember of him. >> difficulties he once wrote to his wife, wreak some men. but make others. real leaders, he said, must be ready to sacrifice all, for the freedom of their people. i can rest only for a moment before with freedom, come responsibility and i dare not linger for my long walk is not yet ended. his long walk ended today, as he died at the age of 95. this is the moment of deeper sorrow. yet what made him great is what made him human. we saw in him what we seek in ourselves. >> looking back now to the headdy days in 1990, and the days after that, the excitement throughout the world even the months after that, leaf him here in the wrights. joining us here in the studio, she helped to organize nelson mandela's first tour after he was released from prison, and it was really quite soon after his release, can you take us back to that moment? it is june of 1990, and america is seeing nelson mandela, ho
and whose dignity inspired not only his own homeland, but those that work for freedom and civil rights across the world. we begin with the great man's own words. the ones we will all remember of him. >> difficulties he once wrote to his wife, wreak some men. but make others. real leaders, he said, must be ready to sacrifice all, for the freedom of their people. i can rest only for a moment before with freedom, come responsibility and i dare not linger for my long walk is not yet ended....
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rights struggle, the fact that both of them were the first presidents, and to the fact that president obama got elevated into politics through the example of nelson mandela and the anti-apartheid struggle. how concerned are you about the future of south africa now mandela has gone and, given the reaction we got -- we saw president zuma got in the stadium today. >> in a strange way, i think all of that says south africa's future is good. this is south africa where people can feel free without fear of recriminations and be let into a stadium where their political sentiments in an election season -- i believe it to use that occasion drive an election campaign agenda. something in me actually felt that the democracy that nelson really has given us is working in south africa. >> thank you very much for coming in. >> thanks very much to you. >> and optimistic south african ambassador there. let's get a look at other news from around the world. the eu foreign policy chief has held talks with the ukrainian president over the continuing standoff between police and antigovernment protesters in
rights struggle, the fact that both of them were the first presidents, and to the fact that president obama got elevated into politics through the example of nelson mandela and the anti-apartheid struggle. how concerned are you about the future of south africa now mandela has gone and, given the reaction we got -- we saw president zuma got in the stadium today. >> in a strange way, i think all of that says south africa's future is good. this is south africa where people can feel free...
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civil rights struggle and the south african struggle. act the work, he was jailed and stabbed, and killed at 39. mr. mandela struggling he was jailed for 27 years. and choosing reconciliation over retribution. so they both have that moral character about them. mr. obama, on the other hand, he was a benefactor. so he come as generation behind, but dr. kick, and mr. mandela, and and drink king were also trance forty figures. >> we just saw a picture of you, with one of my colleague morgan ratford who got the chance to meet nelson mandela for the first time. tell me about the man you knew? >> your know, i must say when i was in cape town south africa, my son and i met him at the door, and he immediately recognized me and called my name. i was just overwhelmed. he knew what was going on. he was alive and alert. he didn't just read the speech that day. he at was a great debate. every time we have a private conversation whether it's my office or my home, they always were overwhelmed by the and breadth of his concerning interest. he also did no
civil rights struggle and the south african struggle. act the work, he was jailed and stabbed, and killed at 39. mr. mandela struggling he was jailed for 27 years. and choosing reconciliation over retribution. so they both have that moral character about them. mr. obama, on the other hand, he was a benefactor. so he come as generation behind, but dr. kick, and mr. mandela, and and drink king were also trance forty figures. >> we just saw a picture of you, with one of my colleague morgan...
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mandela, a remarkable life dedicated his to fighting for civil rights in south africa. mandela lived long enough to see a multiracial democratic south africa. he called it the rainbow nation. the grief over his death crossed racial lines ha he devoted his to erasing. a young man at the age of 25, he
mandela, a remarkable life dedicated his to fighting for civil rights in south africa. mandela lived long enough to see a multiracial democratic south africa. he called it the rainbow nation. the grief over his death crossed racial lines ha he devoted his to erasing. a young man at the age of 25, he
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that was nailed by the civil rights attorney. cool and is in the hot seat this week after players representing to guantanamo bay detainees for the european court of human rights that they are still in the country for permitting see any black sites to operate and torture their clients on polish soil. uncle rick keene on the sherry and how to convey that are considered high ranking al qaeda operatives before their capture. they claimed they were waterboarding forced to stand in stress positions and went from on executions. nate and all the c i a mall in d c i a black site. on this year it was captured in the u a e in two thousand to convey that was found in pakistan and that she loved them both plans for the cit a secret prison network often called black sites. after that the two men were sent to guantanamo bay where they remain to this day. the men claimed they were tortured at secret c i a prisons in coal and a country that has laws against torture. while cullen has not officially admitting its role in the cit program there is si
that was nailed by the civil rights attorney. cool and is in the hot seat this week after players representing to guantanamo bay detainees for the european court of human rights that they are still in the country for permitting see any black sites to operate and torture their clients on polish soil. uncle rick keene on the sherry and how to convey that are considered high ranking al qaeda operatives before their capture. they claimed they were waterboarding forced to stand in stress positions...
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martin luther king, america's civil rights movement. i think it's fair to say that history will show the student became the teacher. america the world, his classroom. >> every individual life has a lesson. >> yes. >> thank you so much, byron. >>> still ahead on this special edition of "world news," you're going to meet mandela's jailer, a country boy who became a lifelong friend. that's ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] your eyes. even at a distance of 10 miles... the length of 146 football fields... they can see the light of a single candle. your eyes are amazing. look after them with centrum silver. multivitamins with lutein and vitamins a, c, and e to support healthy eyes and packed with key nutrients to support your heart and brain, too. centrum silver. for the most amazing parts of you. ♪ >>> nelson mandela standing inside the cell that once held him prisoner and mandela walked out of prison with a lesson for living, saying to walk free is not merely to cast off change but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of ot
martin luther king, america's civil rights movement. i think it's fair to say that history will show the student became the teacher. america the world, his classroom. >> every individual life has a lesson. >> yes. >> thank you so much, byron. >>> still ahead on this special edition of "world news," you're going to meet mandela's jailer, a country boy who became a lifelong friend. that's ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] your eyes. even at a distance of 10...
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corker is a key player in the civil rights movement. jenna was an inspiration to end users importantly this morning to get a tree. as for the basic colors. nichole. which even the least arguable that you can overcome any obstacles that anyone rushing off to bible cause of the checks dentist told us all montana's is it. and the cement that was coming he really. he was lying. i just felt really very proud to be havin guy to be an african american to be decades before the anti apartheid. i checked his pulse to toe with steve johnson says he will continue to preach about this is done for monday. these rates move continued to my earn more and more and more about twelve we used to symbolize to try it on monday as nineteen ninety four visits. he came back to holland began to show solidarity. can americans once again produced. i would stick to it now and how people are reacting on the internet to mandela isn't that an event run by shannon bennett ran on china but every scene. well i feel are taking to twitter especially this painting daily list
corker is a key player in the civil rights movement. jenna was an inspiration to end users importantly this morning to get a tree. as for the basic colors. nichole. which even the least arguable that you can overcome any obstacles that anyone rushing off to bible cause of the checks dentist told us all montana's is it. and the cement that was coming he really. he was lying. i just felt really very proud to be havin guy to be an african american to be decades before the anti apartheid. i checked...
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rights move lt and a nonviolent civil rights movement and achieve rights for themselves under the constitution. he was taken with the founding fathers. he knew about it. in south africa you have a majority black population, no constitution, no rights. he was curious how did that black american minority manage to get rights and freedoms? that's what strikes me. remember, he was a trained lawyer. he has an appreciation for the founding fathers. he had an appreciation at the time i was talking to him for people like thurgood marshall. how does a black person end up on the supreme court? he was curious about reagan who sent a black ambassador to south africa, edward perkins. he knew ro nald reagan fought with congress over the use of constructive engagement to put pressure on the south african government. he knew teddy kennedy would be a supporter of ending sanctions of overriding anything reagan did. he was surprised that bob dole, a republican white senator from kansas, was a huge supporter of the anti-apartheid movement and curious that edward perkins, reagan's man in south africa, shows up and
rights move lt and a nonviolent civil rights movement and achieve rights for themselves under the constitution. he was taken with the founding fathers. he knew about it. in south africa you have a majority black population, no constitution, no rights. he was curious how did that black american minority manage to get rights and freedoms? that's what strikes me. remember, he was a trained lawyer. he has an appreciation for the founding fathers. he had an appreciation at the time i was talking to...
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he wanted to know, wait, how did a minority in the united states achieve civil rights? we ended up talking about, and he's fascinating with the founding fathers. the idea that george washington gives up power one term. something mandela later does. but also citizenship. the whole idea that you have rights in the united states. remember, blacks in south africa had none of that. in a sense, we were inspiring too nelson mandela. >> i'm certain of that. was there anything when you sat down with him that really surpriseded you? i'm sure you prepared ahead of time and researched them and got to know the man through what you were able to read and hear from other personal anecdotes. what did you take away from it? >> i think the thing that surprised me the most is i was saying, you know, mr. mandela, you are a beacon to the world in terms of freedom, struggle, the sacrifice, the 27 years in jail, standing up for principle. he started laugh. he didn't laugh easily. i was taken aback. like maybe he's not understanding this american guy. he said no, it's just when he was growing u
he wanted to know, wait, how did a minority in the united states achieve civil rights? we ended up talking about, and he's fascinating with the founding fathers. the idea that george washington gives up power one term. something mandela later does. but also citizenship. the whole idea that you have rights in the united states. remember, blacks in south africa had none of that. in a sense, we were inspiring too nelson mandela. >> i'm certain of that. was there anything when you sat down...
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what happened in this country was our civil rights movement became integrated, he was sentenced in '62. that was just right after the freedom rides. it was just before we went into birmingham. and while we were in birmingham, i think somewhere around there the sharpville killings occurred. and so our movements moved in parallel. i first went with arthur ash in 1974. and when we came back, we came back determined that i was in the congress then. that we were going to start the process of sanctions. it was interesting to me that we couldn't get a lot of middle ground democrats to lead. we got the black caucus but i had to get actually newt gingrich and former secretary -- oh, i'm having a senior moment. >> that's okay. >> two republicans that first came on the list. and then we got this. then it was voted and then it was vetoed and then a movement started but all of the time there was some also movement going in africa, led largely by nigeria and tanzania, putting pressure on the commonwealth. this didn't happen just because nelson mandela became a saint in prison. it happened because of
what happened in this country was our civil rights movement became integrated, he was sentenced in '62. that was just right after the freedom rides. it was just before we went into birmingham. and while we were in birmingham, i think somewhere around there the sharpville killings occurred. and so our movements moved in parallel. i first went with arthur ash in 1974. and when we came back, we came back determined that i was in the congress then. that we were going to start the process of...
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the president and iconic champion of civil rights died thursday age 95 after years of illness. he was at his home in johannesburg surrounded by family. south african president jacob zuma said our nation has lost its greatest son. our people have lost a father. mandela's hospital has been moved. this is the scene right outside mandela's home there in johannesburg in the out market neighborhood. you can see right now people are laying flowers and to bring tribute to the man widely seen as the father of modern south africa. he was president for five years. he stepped down, has not been president for 14 years but remains very much in the heart of so many people there. this news came later than night south african time and so right now as this country wakes up, 34 minutes past 8:00, many people are learning nelson mandela is at rest. >> and, of course, mandela accomplished so many great things. he was the father of a nation. he led south africa through its battle against oppression and on to democracy and it kept him away from home. he also stayed very close to his family as we've m
the president and iconic champion of civil rights died thursday age 95 after years of illness. he was at his home in johannesburg surrounded by family. south african president jacob zuma said our nation has lost its greatest son. our people have lost a father. mandela's hospital has been moved. this is the scene right outside mandela's home there in johannesburg in the out market neighborhood. you can see right now people are laying flowers and to bring tribute to the man widely seen as the...
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my guest, tom brokaw, civil rights leader reverend jesse jackson. and harry smith talks to poet maya angelou as she mourns a good friend. >> and that's what he brought, was deliverance and ignorance. >> i'll have all that ahead on "meet the press," sunday, december 8. >>> the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press." >>> and good sunday morning. it is a day of prayer and reflection in south africa as the nation mourns its former president, nelson mandela. flags are also at half staff at the white house this morning. president obama and the first lady will be going to south africa on tuesday. and former presidents jimmy carter and bill clinton will also be going to south africa this week. nelson mandela will be laid to rest this week. charlene hunter-gault who worked for npr during nelson mandela's presidency, and from new york, special correspondent tom brokaw. here is tom back in 1990 interviewing nelson mandela after he was released from prison. it's a great photo. the reverend jesse jackson is here, one of the first pe
my guest, tom brokaw, civil rights leader reverend jesse jackson. and harry smith talks to poet maya angelou as she mourns a good friend. >> and that's what he brought, was deliverance and ignorance. >> i'll have all that ahead on "meet the press," sunday, december 8. >>> the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press." >>> and good sunday morning. it is a day of prayer and reflection in south africa as the nation mourns...
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he made the visit because of the civil rights movement. he made a lot of references during that speech to his own country and south africa and the similarities between the civil rights movement in america. >> robert ray in atlanta for us. >> in 1990 nelson mandela visited new york city as we mentioned earlier following his release from prison. thousands gathered in harlem to hear him speak. john this afternoon, what can you tell us? >> a lot of people have been stopping buy just to share memories. as you mentioned it was 1990, 100,000 were in new york city. there was so much anticipation and people remember him stopping and pointing to the apollo theatre. you can see the marquee is up, it's been up since the news came out. it says in memory of nelson mandela, he changed our world. many remember in 1990 when they made the visit they had a marquee saying welcome mr and mrs nelson mandela. it was an electrifying time. there was a huge parade. people remember standing on top of the mar key to get a great vantage point. it was something of hope
he made the visit because of the civil rights movement. he made a lot of references during that speech to his own country and south africa and the similarities between the civil rights movement in america. >> robert ray in atlanta for us. >> in 1990 nelson mandela visited new york city as we mentioned earlier following his release from prison. thousands gathered in harlem to hear him speak. john this afternoon, what can you tell us? >> a lot of people have been stopping buy...
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his dignity inspired the people of his own homeland and those that worked for freedom and civil rights across the world. many offer tribe utes that somehow seem to full short of describing nelson mandela, so we began with the great man's own words, the ones we will all remember of him. "dif", he once wrote to his wife, "break some men, but make others. real leaders must be willing to sacrifices all for the freedom of their people. i can rest only for a moment for with freedom come responsibilities, and i dare not linger for my long walk is not yet ended." >> but that long walk came to an end. tribeauts been pouring in. those who knew him or who are inspired by his struggle: >> our correspondent had a story from new orleans, a restaurant that offered an unforgettable meal. >> this is a flag. >> of all the meals prepared the a simple dish. >> i'm speechless thinking about it. >> markets were mauritious worked in the cape town hotel. >> i was there at the right time. i had the privilege to cook mr nelson mandela's first meal out of imprisonment. they were there to discuss negotiations for
his dignity inspired the people of his own homeland and those that worked for freedom and civil rights across the world. many offer tribe utes that somehow seem to full short of describing nelson mandela, so we began with the great man's own words, the ones we will all remember of him. "dif", he once wrote to his wife, "break some men, but make others. real leaders must be willing to sacrifices all for the freedom of their people. i can rest only for a moment for with freedom...
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do you think that the struggle for justice in south africa and the civil rights movement in the united states had many things in common. they did they actually today it's just a day of different sets of circumstances in the united states african americans why in the monarchy. anso it was a fraction of the population up saying that we wanted to acquire rights just as everyone else was in south africa eu yet the majority of black south africans who were old friends i mean argue whites so they aware there were some differences but there were some similarities in terms of segregation are and and and so all of those of the areas that had to be broken now. so while they are some similarities. the b two different types of movements ultimately getting rid of apartheid. in in a sense certainly is this the same is getting or use some left their similarities to getting rid of racism up the room throughout our world. o'neill is the fact that both him and ella had so much empathy mimi was ready to understand and appreciate the fifth of what some africans had evened out a piece way when we look at w
do you think that the struggle for justice in south africa and the civil rights movement in the united states had many things in common. they did they actually today it's just a day of different sets of circumstances in the united states african americans why in the monarchy. anso it was a fraction of the population up saying that we wanted to acquire rights just as everyone else was in south africa eu yet the majority of black south africans who were old friends i mean argue whites so they...
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but the impetus to free that system came from the civil rights struggle on policy. and to think, david, he got off the terrorist list in 2008. think about that. >> he had sort of lingered there. >> he got off the perish list by george bush at the communists' urging in 2008. >> we talk about the mandela legacy and he's often compared, as we said, to dr. king, to ghandi. but those two were killed much earlier in their lives before they could see the fruits of that struggle. mandela stands alone in that regard, doesn't he? >> in many respects. but let me just say this, i think it makes sense, david. when you think about ghandi, both mandela and king learned from ghandi his whole commitment as a lawyer to non-violence. that became king's legacy in his short 39 years of life, it became nelson man dailydela's l in his 95 years of life. king freed a nation and reverend jackson talked about the 1965 civil rights act, the 1968 voting rights act, the '68 fair housing act. the world changed and he changed with it. we have to lift this great man up for what he's done and what w
but the impetus to free that system came from the civil rights struggle on policy. and to think, david, he got off the terrorist list in 2008. think about that. >> he had sort of lingered there. >> he got off the perish list by george bush at the communists' urging in 2008. >> we talk about the mandela legacy and he's often compared, as we said, to dr. king, to ghandi. but those two were killed much earlier in their lives before they could see the fruits of that struggle....
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and the country's civil rights and you were on south africa on the day mandela walked out of prison. tell us about that moment. >> you know, it was a moment difficult to describe. he took us on unbelievable heights of joy that day. and the depths of pain. a huge larger than life figure. i've gotten into south africa quite by chance in 1979 and connected with his family and we instructed in the 1990. and we had the feeling he would be released this weekend so my son and i met him there. what surprised me was he recognized me and call my name. he had seen the convention speech from the democratic convention. he came out and stopped. i'm sure the governor will say that he was unbelievably slumped. he came out not just reading speeches but up for debate. >> what do you think his enduring legacy will be around the world? is it the concept that i've heard you speak? the concept of forgiveness and reconciliation? >> i think it is the thing everybody says. that he was the true towering moral figure of our time. why do people say that he is the leader that they most respect? everybody you ask
and the country's civil rights and you were on south africa on the day mandela walked out of prison. tell us about that moment. >> you know, it was a moment difficult to describe. he took us on unbelievable heights of joy that day. and the depths of pain. a huge larger than life figure. i've gotten into south africa quite by chance in 1979 and connected with his family and we instructed in the 1990. and we had the feeling he would be released this weekend so my son and i met him there....
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civil rights did. obama in an act of what i would call constitutional indecency because it's legal to do it but isn't traditional in any way, he passed obamacare wout a single member supporting him in either house from the other side. against public opinion and after we've had an off year election in massachusetts where the candidate for republicans ran on a platform of opposing obamacare they shoved it down the throw of the american people, through congress on a maneuver called reconciliation. that is the reason he's out there alone in the wind as this whole thing, obamacare collapses around him. did he not do what fdr and lbj did. they understood these math tiz are temporary. obama seized on temporary majority, american people rejected and now, he's reaping whirl wind perfect that. >> he seems to be confused or indignant republicans aren't rushing in to try to salvage the law as opposed to sitting back and criticizing it. they don't like the law. but, charles, do they have an obligation to do problem
civil rights did. obama in an act of what i would call constitutional indecency because it's legal to do it but isn't traditional in any way, he passed obamacare wout a single member supporting him in either house from the other side. against public opinion and after we've had an off year election in massachusetts where the candidate for republicans ran on a platform of opposing obamacare they shoved it down the throw of the american people, through congress on a maneuver called reconciliation....
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there was a direct connect between the civil rights movements of this country and the civil rights movement in south africa. you could not get around the organic interconnection between the two. today you have seen an outpouring of every city in the country. the wrooeths the tributes, the candle lights. he was not someone that was thousands of miles away. he was sane and is sane and will always be sane as really in the spirit of civil rights movement in this country, an infinite part of that. >> on a more personal note i remember talking about the goals of civil equalitiry, "i have a dream" speech of martin luther king's speech. they say are problems, discrimination exists, south africa has race issues. how do we see this going forward. >> let's compare dr king and nelson mandela. after the height of the civil rights movement in the 1960s, dr king had two or three other goals. adjust foreign policy, antiwar, peace movement in the war and political oppression. not only in this country but globally. also dr king had another goal. the poor people's march, poverty, number inequality. conversely
there was a direct connect between the civil rights movements of this country and the civil rights movement in south africa. you could not get around the organic interconnection between the two. today you have seen an outpouring of every city in the country. the wrooeths the tributes, the candle lights. he was not someone that was thousands of miles away. he was sane and is sane and will always be sane as really in the spirit of civil rights movement in this country, an infinite part of that....
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. >> reporter: civil rights lawyer george bizos was mandela's attorney and friend. >> he was an example to the people of south africa, to the people of africa, to the people of the world as to how authorities is to be exercised. >> reporter: almost 60 heads of state including president barack obama and most of the living former u.s. presidents will attend mandela's memorial and funeral services this week. from a massive ceremony at a johannesburg stadium tuesday to lying in state in the capitol pretoria to burial next sunday in his ancestral village in the eastern cape province, it's expected to be one of the largest global gatherings in recent history. >> reporter: you say 11,000 troops? >> 11,000 troops have been deployed. >> reporter: defense minister nosiviwe mapisa-nqakula is overseeing security. she says soldier, the air force, national and city police all are being deployed to control and protect tens of thousands of mourners. >> this is a test for us. and we know that and believe that people will be watching how south africa perform. >> today a south african's pray, >> reporter:
. >> reporter: civil rights lawyer george bizos was mandela's attorney and friend. >> he was an example to the people of south africa, to the people of africa, to the people of the world as to how authorities is to be exercised. >> reporter: almost 60 heads of state including president barack obama and most of the living former u.s. presidents will attend mandela's memorial and funeral services this week. from a massive ceremony at a johannesburg stadium tuesday to lying in...
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people in the civil rights movement looked towards south africa and felt the pride in seeing a black president in place. america's first black president paid tribute to the fierce dignity, as he called it, of nelson mandela. he took a great lesson from that. nelson mandela no longer belongs to us but to the ages. he said that is not the lessons of all addicts but of people in their own personal lives. decisions should be guided, not by hate but by love. a quote from echo martin luther king. he said, he took history in his hands and bent the moral half of the universe. >> we have been reporting the death of former president mandela in south africa at the age of 95. increasingly frail in recent months. lots of concern about his health over the past two or three years. presidentnnounced by zuma about 45 minutes ago. looking atnt, we are the death of nelson mandela on bbc news. south africa's ruling african national congress has said that the world lost a colossus and the epitome of quality, justice, and peace. nelson mandela immersed himself in a campaign for justice and an end to pover
people in the civil rights movement looked towards south africa and felt the pride in seeing a black president in place. america's first black president paid tribute to the fierce dignity, as he called it, of nelson mandela. he took a great lesson from that. nelson mandela no longer belongs to us but to the ages. he said that is not the lessons of all addicts but of people in their own personal lives. decisions should be guided, not by hate but by love. a quote from echo martin luther king. he...
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rights it was martin luther king. only an individual there were only a couple individuals i can think of paul robeson w.b. to boys. a mouth a man who you know would go to the united nations and say that discrimination against african-americans negroes in those days was a global issue in the united nations should get involved and but it didn't really register with us what what happened was that south africa in particular the demonstration it kicked off at the south african embassy. if we recognized our it's not a word our global name we recognized look our struggle really is a global struggle because simultaneous to these civil rights struggle domesticity here in the united states there is you know there was the the the fight against colonist on the continent of africa and south africa was a major a major part of that and so we became global and then you remember college campuses you probably remember this remember we start talking about disinvestment you know and we're you know most of us didn't have a dime in the sto
rights it was martin luther king. only an individual there were only a couple individuals i can think of paul robeson w.b. to boys. a mouth a man who you know would go to the united nations and say that discrimination against african-americans negroes in those days was a global issue in the united nations should get involved and but it didn't really register with us what what happened was that south africa in particular the demonstration it kicked off at the south african embassy. if we...
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the world clammored for the release of the man that became the symbol of civil rights movement. finally, he walked out of prison, to thunderous applause. four years later he was elected south africa's first black president. let's exam the man behind that status. our first guest had a strong personal connection to nelson mandela. he taught him and his grandmother visited the south african leadner prison. he joins us from massachusets, really a pleasure to be with you. thank you for joining us, i know you are the headmaster of the great tan school, and really very glad that you took time on what must be a hard day for you, given how many family connections you have and the fact you knew him yourself. >> thank you for having me, and i thank god for letting me live to come here. so i think the man himself would love -- ould have loved for me to be here. >> now, tell me about your family and the connections? >> mandela was a man of humility, so it is hard to talk about my family. my grandfather taught nelson mandela in college. they belonged to the same organization the a.n.c. my gra
the world clammored for the release of the man that became the symbol of civil rights movement. finally, he walked out of prison, to thunderous applause. four years later he was elected south africa's first black president. let's exam the man behind that status. our first guest had a strong personal connection to nelson mandela. he taught him and his grandmother visited the south african leadner prison. he joins us from massachusets, really a pleasure to be with you. thank you for joining us, i...
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what's been the interplay between our civil rights movement and his struggle? >> the commitment, the dedication, the inspiration of this one man meant everything to the american civil rights movement. i remember it as a young student in nashville in 1962 and '63 and '64. we said if nelson mandela can do it, we can do it. we identify with the struggle. and when i met him for the first time, he said to me, john lewis, i noknow all about you. i follow you. you inspire us. i said no, mr. mandela, you inspire us. so there was this unbelievable relationship between what was happening in america and what would happen in south africa. we would say from time to time the struggle in birmingham, the struggle in selma is inaccept raable from the struggle in sharpville. >> one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you today congressman was reading about and thinking about and trying to understand the importance of those decisions made by mandela and other apartheid leaders after sharpville, when they decided non-violence was not enough, they have been so committed to nonviolen
what's been the interplay between our civil rights movement and his struggle? >> the commitment, the dedication, the inspiration of this one man meant everything to the american civil rights movement. i remember it as a young student in nashville in 1962 and '63 and '64. we said if nelson mandela can do it, we can do it. we identify with the struggle. and when i met him for the first time, he said to me, john lewis, i noknow all about you. i follow you. you inspire us. i said no, mr....
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my guests, tom brokaw, civil rights leader reverend jesse jackson. and harry smith talks to poet maya angelou as she mourns a good friend. >> and that's what he brought, was deliverance and ignorance. >> i'll have all that ahead on "meet the press," sunday, december 8. >>> the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press." >>> and good sunday morning. it is a day of prayer and reflection in south africa as the nation mourns its former president, nelson mandela. flags are also at half staff at the white house this morning. president obama and the first lady will be going to south africa on tuesday. and former presidents jimmy carter and bill clinton will also be going to south africa this week. nelson mandela will be laid to rest this week. joining me charlene hunter-gault who worked for npr during nelson mandela's presidency, and from new york, special correspondent tom brokaw. here is tom back in 1990 interviewing nelson mandela after he was released from prison. it's a great photo. the reverend jesse jackson is here, one of t
my guests, tom brokaw, civil rights leader reverend jesse jackson. and harry smith talks to poet maya angelou as she mourns a good friend. >> and that's what he brought, was deliverance and ignorance. >> i'll have all that ahead on "meet the press," sunday, december 8. >>> the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press." >>> and good sunday morning. it is a day of prayer and reflection in south africa as the nation...
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. >> the civil rights movement, where people's rights were being violated. in south africa, there was no constitution and there were no rights. so apartheid was really a labor system, a way of controlling black workers to the benefit of the people who owned the mines and the resources of that country. and so the whole system regulated people's lives, almost in every dimension, where they could live, where they could work, and they couldn't violate those rules. they couldn't be in the city after dark. they couldn't, you know, work in certain areas. it was a tightly regulated, really a fascist, to use a word that we don't use much anymore. it's that kind of a white nationalist regime. >> i mean, there were -- and we should just say, there were secret police. during nelson mandela's imprisonment, it was illegal to have a picture of him, right? these are -- >> it's all true, chris. >> it couldn't put it in a newspaper. they couldn't put his face or name in a newspaper. >> a lot of us forget that the united states government and many western governments supported
. >> the civil rights movement, where people's rights were being violated. in south africa, there was no constitution and there were no rights. so apartheid was really a labor system, a way of controlling black workers to the benefit of the people who owned the mines and the resources of that country. and so the whole system regulated people's lives, almost in every dimension, where they could live, where they could work, and they couldn't violate those rules. they couldn't be in the city...
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our civil rights movement had its music, but, in south africa, hundreds of songs rang out. >> ( singing "nanku" ) >> marsalis: "nanku," recorded by mariam makeba, kept alive the spirit of mandela and others locked up on robben island. >> the nation's feelings when those guys were all in jail was how much they missed them. ( sings "nangue" ) and it says they are all rotting in jail. while we need them here, they are all rotting in jail. >> ♪ nan gue nanque nangue, mandela oh, my africa. ♪ >> you know, nobody had seen him since the 1960s. by the '80s, you were not allowed to say his name in south africa. ♪ >> marsalis: in the mid 1980s, hugh was far from home, making music in botswana when nelson mandela reached out to him. in 1985, he was still incarcerated. he took the time to write you a letter on your birthday. >> he just had this letter smuggled out of prison. here's a guy who's been in jail for 20 years, but he's writing to me, giving me encouragement. i just stood there and said, "wow," and i then went to the piano and i started singing. ( sings "bring back nelson mandela" )
our civil rights movement had its music, but, in south africa, hundreds of songs rang out. >> ( singing "nanku" ) >> marsalis: "nanku," recorded by mariam makeba, kept alive the spirit of mandela and others locked up on robben island. >> the nation's feelings when those guys were all in jail was how much they missed them. ( sings "nangue" ) and it says they are all rotting in jail. while we need them here, they are all rotting in jail. >>...
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we recognized look our struggle really is a global struggle because simultaneous to these civil rights struggle domesticity here in the united states there is you know there was the the the fight against colonist on the continent of africa and south africa was a major a major part of that and so we became global and then you remember college campuses you probably remember this remember we start talking about disinvestment you know and we're you know most of us didn't have a dime in the stock market began everywhere colleges look at colleges and we didn't really know what that you know what all of it meant and people began to couldn't make their relationship. to people thousands of miles away yeah i think it inspires movements to this day and so i think that yes i think that absolutely it doesn't aspire moments to this day it connects all of us we see and then it sort of goes to what martin luther king said at the time that where we were it's a small planet where a village global is now out of that well and speaking to that this is what nelson mandela had to say as he got out of prison
we recognized look our struggle really is a global struggle because simultaneous to these civil rights struggle domesticity here in the united states there is you know there was the the the fight against colonist on the continent of africa and south africa was a major a major part of that and so we became global and then you remember college campuses you probably remember this remember we start talking about disinvestment you know and we're you know most of us didn't have a dime in the stock...
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of politicians like barack obama for whom the apartheid fight, the fight to end apartheid was their civil rights struggle that they were able to emotionally connect to. >> remembering mandela, you'll be talking about that on "meet the press" coming up at 10:30 here on nbc 4. thank you so much, david. >> all right, guys. good to see you. >> we continue to stay on top of our wintry weather that has made its with an he he to our area. >> let's check in with chuck. >> vj and i are in the storm center, keeping track of every flake as it comes down across the area. a lot more flakes coming up this morning into today. we're all worried about the we're all worried about the chanceuse chase freedom atselecs and get 5% cash back this quarter. so you can give her an even bigger surprise. activate your 5% cash back at chase.com/freedom chase. so you can. live pictures now outside the u.s. capital. you can really make out those big fat snowflakes coming down there. pretty impressive. >> we want to take you over to the white house. seeing a lot of white around here as well, steady flow of snowflakes ma
of politicians like barack obama for whom the apartheid fight, the fight to end apartheid was their civil rights struggle that they were able to emotionally connect to. >> remembering mandela, you'll be talking about that on "meet the press" coming up at 10:30 here on nbc 4. thank you so much, david. >> all right, guys. good to see you. >> we continue to stay on top of our wintry weather that has made its with an he he to our area. >> let's check in with chuck....
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you know it turned out he had read a book i had written about the american civil rights era. while most journalists were turned away, turned out he wanted to meet me. i was invited into his home to help him write notes to world leaders who were all congratulating him upon his release from prison. i wrote notes and thank you notes like hope to see you soon, great to be out. silly things like that. i got to sit with him as he was seeing grandchildren, meeting old friends, having home cooked foods. incredible experience. at one point he was asking me about america. i said mr. mandela everyone is so fascinated by you and the fact you have not let bitterness claim your heart that you believe in all of south africa, black, white, colored, indian, everybody. he was saying you know, this was not what he hoped for as a child. when he initially just wanted to be a poet, loved boxing, fascinated by mike tyson back in the days when he was getting out of prison, mohammed ali. the fact he became a lawyer was just amazing to him. he never expected he would become the face of the freedom fig
you know it turned out he had read a book i had written about the american civil rights era. while most journalists were turned away, turned out he wanted to meet me. i was invited into his home to help him write notes to world leaders who were all congratulating him upon his release from prison. i wrote notes and thank you notes like hope to see you soon, great to be out. silly things like that. i got to sit with him as he was seeing grandchildren, meeting old friends, having home cooked...
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there was legislation introduced by civil rights leader, john lewis acknowledging, u.s. acknowledgement of mandela international day and senators that showed up when they screamed mandela long walk to freedom, a documentary. congress was, indeed, ratcheting up the honors of mandela as his health failed. at the live desk, i'm scott macfarlane. >> thank you. we are joined by former senator, chris dodd of connecticut. you neuman della personally. what are your thoughts on his passing this evening? >> i met him a number of times. i don't want to sound like it was more intimate than it was. i was on the senate foreign relations committee years ago when we took strong positions and opposition to south africa along with senator kennedy and many others who led the fight of john lewis and the house. there were so many people involved. the united states almost stood away with the boycott until policies changed. many thoughts come to mind in a moment like this. one thing occurred to me. i have been asked over the years. in the past, i spoke at every high school in connecticut in 30
there was legislation introduced by civil rights leader, john lewis acknowledging, u.s. acknowledgement of mandela international day and senators that showed up when they screamed mandela long walk to freedom, a documentary. congress was, indeed, ratcheting up the honors of mandela as his health failed. at the live desk, i'm scott macfarlane. >> thank you. we are joined by former senator, chris dodd of connecticut. you neuman della personally. what are your thoughts on his passing this...
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. >> schieffer: did john lewis, one of the heroes of the american civil rights movement, mandela will always be the great teacher. >> nelson mandela, this one man, taught all of us how to live, how not to become bitter. someone who can go to priss son and stay all those years and come out so free. not hating anyone, not putting anyone down. i wish we had a few nelson mandelas in america, or maybe a few more in the world to point us to the best part of our human spirit. >> schieffer: there are many heroes who by a single act or decision have changed history or at least their time. to me what sets nelson mandela apart is that his whole life was a lesson. a lessen in courage, perseverance, patience, bravery and finally forgiveness and redemption. that is rare. over the next 40 years what's the healthiest and best way for them to grow so that they really become cauldrons of prosperity and cities of opportunity? what we have found is that if that family is moved into safe, clean affordable housing, places that have access to great school systems, access to jobs and multiple transportation
. >> schieffer: did john lewis, one of the heroes of the american civil rights movement, mandela will always be the great teacher. >> nelson mandela, this one man, taught all of us how to live, how not to become bitter. someone who can go to priss son and stay all those years and come out so free. not hating anyone, not putting anyone down. i wish we had a few nelson mandelas in america, or maybe a few more in the world to point us to the best part of our human spirit. >>...
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it was like he was interviewing me about american politics and the american civil rights movement. in south africisa the majority the population is black and hert white. he wanted to know how did a minority end up achieving civilh rights. he's fasecinated with the founding fathers. it's something mandela also does. but also, citizenship. the whole idea that you have rights in the united states.uth remember, blacks in south africa had none of that. so we were inspiring to nelson t mandela. >> i'm certain of that. was there anything that really surprised you? i'm sure you prepare add head of time and researched him and gota to know the man through what you were able to read and hear through other personal ane anecdotes. >> i said you are a beacon to the world in terms of the sacrifice and 27 years in jail. standing up for principal: he started laughing. i was taken aback. i thought he's not understanding this american guy, you know? but he said no.wa it's when he was growing up all he wanted to do was rebel against his parents. hewa wanted to get out of the b tribal situation. he was
it was like he was interviewing me about american politics and the american civil rights movement. in south africisa the majority the population is black and hert white. he wanted to know how did a minority end up achieving civilh rights. he's fasecinated with the founding fathers. it's something mandela also does. but also, citizenship. the whole idea that you have rights in the united states.uth remember, blacks in south africa had none of that. so we were inspiring to nelson t mandela....
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rights advocate such as all of us [speaker not understood] and lawyers committee for civil rights. we are also able to work with members of the small business commission, the apartment owners association and nonprofit affordable housing providers. even more miraculously, everyone is on board and in support. and even a couple of months ag i'm not sure i could have predicted such consensus around legislation that i expected to be much more controversial, but i really believe we were able to work together because we all believed in the final objective, which is that if you want an opportunity to work, you should be able to get your foot in the door and at least be able to explain yourself and have an opportunity to interview. and talk about how you have either rehabilitated or how your skill set is applicable to the job that you are applying for. ultimately, the question was mainly around the process. employers wanted something that wasn't overly burdensome, but allowed them to review candidates that may have had a conviction history, and those with the conviction history wanted an op
rights advocate such as all of us [speaker not understood] and lawyers committee for civil rights. we are also able to work with members of the small business commission, the apartment owners association and nonprofit affordable housing providers. even more miraculously, everyone is on board and in support. and even a couple of months ag i'm not sure i could have predicted such consensus around legislation that i expected to be much more controversial, but i really believe we were able to work...
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a memorial service for the civil rights icon and former south african president begins as we've been saying in less than an hour. just a little over 30 minutes. prime ministers, presidents, celebrities and thousands of south africans are gathering right now. >> u.s. president barack obama landed in johannesburg a short time ago along with his wife michelle and a delegation that includes his predecessor george w. bush. >> who is stepping off right behind president obama there and prime minister david cameron arriving there in south africa to attend observances and former south african president f.w. de klerk is there. he shared the nobel peace prize with mandela in 1993. >> okay. mandela spent 27 punishing years behind bars for his struggle against apartheid. but when he was finally released from prison he strove for forgiveness and unity. >> from mandela's close associate to admirers who stood in long lines to shake his hand, many people carry very special memories of him. >> we'd like to bring you now some mandela remembrances from people who gathered to pay him tribute outside lond
a memorial service for the civil rights icon and former south african president begins as we've been saying in less than an hour. just a little over 30 minutes. prime ministers, presidents, celebrities and thousands of south africans are gathering right now. >> u.s. president barack obama landed in johannesburg a short time ago along with his wife michelle and a delegation that includes his predecessor george w. bush. >> who is stepping off right behind president obama there and...
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Dec 9, 2013
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and somehow the movement here, the civil rights movement in our country deserves much credit for the change we now see in america, and in south africa. >> well, and reverend, to that point, that's why it is so interesting -- i think, and potentially enlightening, to see some of the political debate playing out more among republicans. but take a listen to more from former speaker newt gingrich, in doing what rick hertzburg was doing, embracing as a founding father in politics, one of the best things you could say about someone. take a listen. >> posted my statement on her facebook page and was amazed at some of the intensity, some of whom came back three and four and five times, repeating how angry they were. so i wrote my newsletter on friday, basically entitled it, "what would you have done." >> and he goes on to talk about what the legacy of mandela is being a revolutionary and freedom fighter and also a patriot. how do you looking at this now, national/international conversation, how do you think we're doing in remembering our history accurately with apartheid as a foreign policy
and somehow the movement here, the civil rights movement in our country deserves much credit for the change we now see in america, and in south africa. >> well, and reverend, to that point, that's why it is so interesting -- i think, and potentially enlightening, to see some of the political debate playing out more among republicans. but take a listen to more from former speaker newt gingrich, in doing what rick hertzburg was doing, embracing as a founding father in politics, one of the...
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Dec 5, 2013
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he understood what the civil rights struggle was in this country and he understood what tolerance and justice is for all. his hope to make south africa, which now celebrates next year 20 years of democracy, we are celebrating 50 years to a trend towards greater justice in our own country. he also was willing to sort of look at the individual in his own country and say, you matter, and what you do, really does count for something. and so as a professor, the born free, the so-called new generation of kids coming along that didn't know apartheid, they have to be reimbued with this history of mandela as was said in his obituary. >> people do amazing things butn he really stands apart. >> well, i think it's partly ink about the idea of contingency and history, he stitched together, so many divergent parts of south african culture. he grew up as a shoeless cow herd. he made something of himself as a lawyer. but he traded in that earned privilege to become a person who was denounced as a traitor in the united states and south africa. and as charlay isne told us, came out as a singular vision
he understood what the civil rights struggle was in this country and he understood what tolerance and justice is for all. his hope to make south africa, which now celebrates next year 20 years of democracy, we are celebrating 50 years to a trend towards greater justice in our own country. he also was willing to sort of look at the individual in his own country and say, you matter, and what you do, really does count for something. and so as a professor, the born free, the so-called new...